Ask a KJVO
There may be a few assumptions that need to be verified when dealing with a person who is KJVO. Not everything that people believe about KJVO is true. In order to find out just what is true about KJVOs and what is Not, we should know what questions to ask them.
There are a few different kinds of KJVO. And so the questions to ask them – so that you know where they stand – are the following:
1. When you say that you are KJVO, does that mean that you believe that almost all modern versions of the Bible are false or innacurate versions ? Is the reason why you think that most modern versions are bad because they were translated from Different Greek Texts than the Greek texts used for the KJV ?
- People do not simply become KJVO arbitrarily, in most cases. They become KJVO For a Reason. The reason in many cases, is that they find out that Modern English Versions were translated from the wrong Greek Texts, from Greek Texts that did not exist before 1881, from Greek Texts of the Old or New Testament that are false, fraudulent and contradictory. You may or may not agree with this (yet), but to be intellectually honest, it would be appropriate to recognize that – in their own minds – that is the reason WHY KJVOs insist on trusting "Only" the KJV.
2. when you say that you are KJVO, does that mean that you are a "KJVO" in the sense of ANY KJV, or are you talking about the Original FIRST EDITION KJV ?
- Some modern version advocates think that they score points in convincing KJVOs that there are "errors" in the later editions of the KJV. Since most KJVOs are usually recommending King James Bibles that were used prior to 1640, the issue of the mistakes in any latter editions of the KJV does not affect them. After all, when KJVOs speak of the KJV itself, they are talking about the work that was produced by the original KJV Translation Committees who worked on the Old and New Testaments, not what happened to it afterword by some printer, though most KJV editions are good.
And for the record, they [KJVOs] would be (and are) just as horrified about those mistakes as anyone else would be.
3. when you say that you are KJVO, does that mean that you actually believe that someone who is Chinese would have to learn English to read the actual King James Version in English, in order for that chinese or Arabic person to have access to a true Bible ?
- Most KJVOs are actually talking about English versions of the Bible. Believe it or not, most of them (KJVOs) already do mentally undertand that different versions in different languages, will not be using the actual KJV. However, the answer they would give you is that IF the Text of the foreign language Bible conveys accurately the same meaning for the same verses – as the meaning of the KJV – that they would NOT have a problem with versions in other languages.
Remember, in many cases, the issue of KJVO is Still about the Greek Texts used for the translation of the Bible into the English language, and not simply about the King James Version itself.
We have released the
Arabic Version of the New Testament for Free, however.You can download or Link to it at:
http://www.exorthodoxforchrist.com/arabic_new_testament.htm
YOU mentioned the "same meaning" ? aren't you talking about "Dynamic Equivalence" ?
No, not at all. Here is the page on "Dynamic Equivalence" and what this term means.
4. when you say that you are KJVO, does that mean that you think that the KJV is the only one because it is the only faithful translation that CAN be produced, or because you think it is the only Faithful and accurate translation that is currently available in English ?
- this question is asked because we are trying to find out how KJVOs arrived at their conclusion about the KJV, and its "sacredness".
Does a KJVO really believe that only the KJV will ever be the faithful edition of the Bible, ever produced ? or is their point that what they are really against is the Modern Versions in English because of
1) the scholars who were used for the translation and
2) the manuscripts that were used for the translation ?
For many KJVOs, the point is not that the KJV is the ONLY one, as much as it is that Modern English Version are not translated reliably and Not from the correct Greek manuscripts
4. What is the KJVO debate REALLY about ?
It is a debate mainly about 3 things (topics):
A. The Greek Manuscripts that SHOULD be used
It is easy to think that the KJVO debate centers around the English. But that is not really the case. Most KJVOs themselves know and understand more than the Modern Version Advocates: This debate is about which GREEK, Ancient Koine Greek New Testament Manuscripts SHOULD be used as the basis for what is read in the Languages that exist and are used today.
Most people who think that the Debate about KJVO is centered on the English Language miss the point: KJVOs use the English Language to make their point to the English-Speaking Audiences, but the same debate, the same issues, the same questions about scholarship all exist concerning FOREIGN LANGUAGE editions and versions of the Old and New Testaments.
KJVO and SPANISH LANGUAGE - Attempts to Mislead the Readers !
This same Debate is happening among the Spanish/ Hispanic Speaking communities around the World. Modern Publishing Houses want to make a TON of money from selling False Versions. They have taken the words and changed the words of the New Testament, they have changed the meanings of verses, they have omitted entire verses in many cases, but the ONE thing that the Modern Publishing Houses keep is the NAME or the TITLE of the Version. That is a TRICK ! That is a Gimmick !
This is done in order to make people think that they are receiving an accurate representation of the original Version when they are not. We are not referring to simply updating the spelling of a word or two. We are talking about Thousands of Changes that Affect the MEANING of the Words and the UNDERSTANDING of the Readers. These things did NOT happen by Accident.
That is why we have released the 1831 Valera version of the New Testament - FOR FREE - in Spanish !
http://www.exorthodoxforchrist.com/ebooks_&_bookfiles.htm
We ALSO have released the 1602 Reina Valera, also in Spanish so people can start doing the research and the comparisons [to the Modern Versions] for themselves
http://www.exorthodoxforchrist.com/1602_reina_valera_biblia_testamento.htm
KJVOs are not Afraid of the Debates, and are NOT afraid of the records and documents of History. It is mostly Modern Version Advocates, College Professors who already have been told that they will lose their seminary position and tenure if they dare to say or teach the truth about how Modern Versions have been changed and Altered to reflect a different content. These Modern Versions are changed a little bit more with each new edition, so that most readers do not notice the changes. But the point is that it is KJVO advocates who are in favor of Original and Historic Research.
The Question is simply: Which Greek Manuscripts are Better ? Which Greek Manuscripts is there MORE historical support FOR ? Which Greek Manuscripts were used by the Early Church ?
Over and over, the Answer will be the Manuscripts that were used are those that agree with the Early Church. There are 25,000 copies of portions of the New Testament in Ancient Koine Greek. Those copies, over and over, have the SAME GREEK as what is used in the 1611 King James Version or the Geneva Bible.
Modern Versions use a Different Greek Text, the one provided, written and composed by Westcott and Hort. Literally, they would hand the version of the Greek that they had written up, that they had composed, to their Translation Committee. Then the committe would vote on how to translate it. But the Source for that Greek Text was Westcott and Hort, by the testimony of the members of the Translation Committee !!
That is true because that is what the Translation Committee Members stated themselves, not because KJVOs state these facts. Westcott and Hort deliberately changed the Word of God in thousands of Places. They state this abundantly in the introduction to their own version. They were Church of England Scholars who wanted to change the entire theology of their Church. And after 1881, the theology of the Church of England changed a great deal, the main reason being they no longer had accurate Bibles from Accurate Greek Manuscripts.
Churches today are tepid, weak, lacking in spiritual strength and spiritual power. Even most of the people who attend those churches have no idea what they believe or how to defend their basic doctrines. That is not by accident. The versions they use have very little spiritual power because they were altered, and the lives of the Church Members are the same way = very little spiritual power. Because of this, many evangelical churches and Pastors have resorted to fads, programs and gimmicks that do everything EXCEPT study and Adress these questions and issues. Most Pastors are Afraid to address or study these issues. In almost every way, these Pastors are allowing themselves to be controlled by FEAR rather than a Sound Mind and the real Historical Facts.
Most Pastors refuse to discuss these issues, because they do not have any real
Spiritual Power. Their whole life is ruled by Fear. That is Not the way that the
Churches or the Pastors were, until AFTER their Bibles were changed.
Those who want to depart from truth, those who want to have Weak Churches, Ignorant Laymen, and Fearful Pastors should stay in churches that use MODERN VERSIONS, because most of the time that will be the result.
Those who want Spiritually Strong Churches must work hard to find congregations who really work to study to show themselves approved, who want to understand God IN DEPTH, and who want to know what God ACTUALLY has to say, through the same Word of God that has been available for nearly 2000 years, until the power was taken from the Modern Churches.
You - The Laymen and a Few Pastors who care are the only ones who can reverse this.
No one is going to do this if you do not.
No one is going to spoon feed you, and then find that you have spiritual power.
Spiritual Power takes Spiritual Effort !
Spiritual Power takes Spiritual Commitment !
Finding out about the Real Level of Scholarship Required, about learning History and about learning how to defend issues Doctrinally is very rewarding and very encouraging. Most people have already tried the "Easy" way, and this usually leads to easy discouragement and giving up many times. A better result will come from better methods. (see our short article: where to start)
Eventually, the issue will be one of Greek Manuscripts. But there is much encouragement that each of us
can have from studying these issues in depth, simply in English. And there is plenty of Material.
B. The Level of Scholarship that SHOULD be required for Translation Work
MOST KJVOs already know that the Ancient Scholars were MUCH MORE knowledgeable about Languages and History, and the Early Christian Church, than the modern College Professor.
The Ancient Scholars were required to learn Greek and Latin FLUENTLY, before they even were eligible
to BEGIN studying in the Universities. Think of what they would have learned by the time that they graduated. Many of those scholars wrote in Latin or Greek in ADDITION to what they wrote in English.
Most of those works are available today, and can be obtained and read today. And many of those Scholars
knew much more than most MODERN College Professors. Modern College Professors are not sufficiently educated to be able to respond to the points and the books written by the Ancient Scholars.
That is why most Christian Translators do NOT WANT you - the layman - to
actually start doing your own research.
Otherwise, you will do your own research and find out just how Ignorant most college Professors are, and how they trade on their political loyalties to defend FALSE Doctrine, so that they can keep their teaching positions.
Put these statements to the test: Start doing your own research !
C. The disclosure of the Hidden Agendas of Many Modern Translators and Translating Teams, who work on the Old and New Testaments.
Many of these Translation Teams of the Old and New Testaments have two Goals:
1. Make more money for the Publisher, and
2. Give the Colleges and the Professors another "accomplishment" to place on their resumes.
The Job Market for College professors is very competitive. It does take a lot of work to continue to teach
at colleges these days. Fearful that they may be replaced, college professors seek to find ways to ensure
the security of their job status, until they obtain Tenure. Most College professors are NOT elegible for Tenure until much Later in their Career. This means that their Early teaching careers are spent in insecurity,
always looking for ways to demonstrate that they are a "better" college teacher. The solution that many
college teachers have adopted is:
a) never question the status quo
b) always agree with those who came before, because the college previously endorsed their work.
c) don't bring up inconvenient truths or facts.
Many Colleges have developed agreements and contracts with certain publishers. What upsets the publishers is when College Professors question certain books or certain professors.
When this happens, the publisher can loose sales. The relationship between a) the College and b) the publisher therefore continues to have a great impact on whether or not College Teachers will retain
their job and their possibility for future tenure. (Seminaries are much WORSE !)
Many Modern Versions have a problem of copyright. They cannot even CLAIM copyright unless they publish an "Original" work. But their "Original" work must be original enough without departing from
what the Bible already says. This produces a problem: what NEW way can be found to reproduce a
different translation of the Bible, when those words have already been translated ? the solution is to
translate in a manner that allows the RETENTION of the copyright, EVEN WHEN textual accuracy is
sacrificed. At least by doing this, the publisher retains the profits, and the professors can claim credit
for their participation in a "Bible Translation".
Many of these professors are NOT saved, many of them show NO evidence of being saved, and it is often
the Publishing Company that determines who is invited to participate in the Modern Version Translation.
The results are predictably disastrous: Money is King (not God), and Textual Accuracy is sacrificed for the Motive of Job Security.
KJVOs have insisted on Translators that are SAVED, Translators who have a HIGH degree of Scholarship, and Translation Committees that care much MORE about the accuracy than they do about the profits of the Publishing Companies. Modern Translators often take a pretended stance of "offense" which they hide behind, much like multinational companies that have a problem when others expose the bad quality of the merchandize being promoted.
5. Does this mean that KJVOs are "not really" KJVO ?
Keep in mind that the label "KJVO" was primarily designed to mis-communicate through "labels".
If KJVOs could simply be labeled and condemned, there would be no need to deal with the questions or
arguments that they proposed. Most of the College professors STILL have not even begun to deal with the
questions - they don't know how, if they want to keep their job. It is easier for them to falsely train those future pastors.
Some KJVO are actually KJVO. But most KJVOs are also willing to use the Geneva Bible and the Textus Receptus, which is the Greek Text that the King James and the Geneva Bible is based on. The Textus Receptus though has a much older history, which is ALSO ignored by professors who advocate Modern Versions (and who are rewarded for their participation in the Modern Version Translation Committees).
Most KJVOs are VERY willing to learn about OTHER versions of the Textus Receptus being used for Bibles
in Foreign Languages. The problem was NOT that the KJVOs were opposed to Modern Versions, but rather that KJVOs have rightfully insisted that Modern Translations would NOT use Greek Manuscripts which are known to be false and innacurate.
Those who can think for themselves, those who want to learn about History, those who want to defend the historic Faith are those who are often labelled as KJVO.
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