Home BOOKS Q & A - Catholic EasternOrthodox _HARM CHRISTIANS? For Women LINKS Hebrew Roots why CAFTA is BAD Politics GIBSON/PASSION MORMONISM Pastor's Corner for NEWBIES Purpose Driven Israel PRAYER Modern Versions Welcome OiL & RESOURCES HELP WANTED KJV/ Versions archeology P.A. & SHARIA VATICAN & JERUSALEM Satanology 101 Textual Criticism _INTRO TO XOFC The Trinity _CODEX ALIMENTAR WORD-FAITH MIDDLE EAST Anglican Lutheran

TNIV ] TNIV 2 ] SBC & TNIV ] [ NIV - Intro ] NIV & Salvation ] VERSIONS: R.V. & R.S.V. ] ESV ] Numbers in Versions - 50,070 or only 70 ] The ever changing literal NASB ] Misquoting Jesus, A Critique of -  the Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why ] NIV-Verses Missing ] NIV Quiz ] NLT-New Living Translation ] NASB ]

 

 

----------

NIV & Virginia Mollenkott

Find out more about the Conference that Virginia Mollenkott spoke at in August 2003

Witness Our Welcome: WOW 2003:  

The largest Christian gathering of lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer and straight persons from Canada and United States.

Source: http://www.wow2k.org/Publicity.htm#Detailed%20Press%20Release

See the List of Speakers (including Mollenkott) at:

http://www.wow2k.org/WOW2003%20publicity%20flyer.pdf

http://www.ctrsr.org/CSRNews/Spring2003.pdf (Page 3)

----------

 

Continuing now to our main presentation on this Page

 
Truth in Translations
   

NIV Translators-Part 1

 

Manuscripts used by NIV Translators -

 

 

Lets take a look at the sources used by the KJV Translators and the KJV Translators.

We know much of what the KJV Translators had. (We won't say that we know "all" that they had, since we still want to review some sources first). 

The Translators of the KJV placed great emphasis on the Greek texts as well as the English phraseology.

The key Greek text used by the KJV Translators was the 1550/1551 Greek text of Stephens. [This is the Greek text that came to be known as the Textus Receptus, along with the Edition of Elzevier].The KJV translators had access to many greek manuscripts, and they wrestled with the questions of which Greek texts to choose from.

The KJV of the Bible was essentially an Oxford and Cambridge joint collaborative effort. Most the translators were fluent in many languages, and they also wrote other works and books. So we cannow (in far greater detail than what we are told) what their sources were.

The NIV Translators did have access to the manuscripts around the world, which were available to them - in order for them to do the translation.

The problem is that they did not do a translation of manuscripts, from those manuscripts themselves. As the NIV translators have stated in their notes & introduction, the Greek Text that they used was based on the UBS/Nestle-Aland version of the Greek New Testament.

 

What the NIV Translators used for their Greek

This may seem insignificant, but the Translators of the NIV SKIPPED OVER the step of deciding which Greek manuscripts were the correct ones.

They deferred on this point, deciding instead to simply choose a Greek text, and [a priori] decide that this was to be their text of choice.

Ok. So we now know what their Greek Text was [the UBS Nestle-Aland greek text]. This is the red-cover greek edition. But where did the UBS/Nestle Aland get the greek texts which it uses for its collation ?

Primarily from 2 Sources (which we also have available to us today - if we need to check their work). The two primary sources for the Nestle Aland Text were:

1. The Corrupt Greek Text of Westcott and Hort which they issued around 1881, and
2. The greek manuscripts discovered by Tischendorf.

There are great problems with both of these sources. The first problem is that Westcott and Hort's greek text will turn out (for those who research this) to have been based on 4 Manuscripts. All of those 4 Manuscripts depart from the 95% of the other Manuscripts in Greek.

Further, they also depart from the usual texts used by the Churches in the ancient world (which make up the 95% of the Greek Manuscripts).

-----------

The Manucript discovered by Tischendorf was discovered in a Greek Orthodox Monastery on the traditional Mt Sinai. Tischendorf named this text the Codex Sinaiticus. It is a corrupt version of the Greek and is the second primary Greek source on which the NIV is based.

 

NIV Translators - Part 2

Tischendorf, Westcott & Hort

 

Back to Tischendorf, and Westcott & Hort

It is significant to remember that it was the Premise of TISCHENDORF that the Greek Texts used by the Christian Church for 1850 years (in his day) were to be REJECTED, because – according to him - they were erroneous & false texts.

This is not something he proved nor demonstrated. It was simply what he had been taught by his University Professors. At the time, Tischendorf was at the Apex of German Textual Criticism, and had (unfortunately) accepted the premise which his anti-God professors had taught him: namely that the Bible is fake, the texts of the bible are fake and we can never really know what was in the original letters of the Bible. (The fact that most of these professors were enemies of the bible is often overlooked).

Having accepted the premises of his professors, Tischendorf decided to find the "real" Bible on his own. Following in the tradition of Textual Criticism, he at first tried to work with Lachman, who had been one of the first German critics to actually start substituting other Greek Texts for the Traditional Textus Receptus [A practice largely started by Griesbach].

Lachman refused to work with Tischendorf, and so Tischendorf struck out on his own, sponsored sometimes by the finances of the German Educational system, sometimes sponsored by private Germans. Tischendorf believed that the Church had been deceived for 1800 years. He did not accept that the Bible was the inspired word of God.

(We have never seen any evidence that Tischendorf even claimed to have been a Christian. I am not aware that he wanted to be one...We are aware that he wanted to be thought of as a great textual critic....anyone having information about the Personal Faith of Tischendorf, and who can cite the sources for this, please let us know).

The first editions of the Greek text collated by Tischendorf largely backed the greek Textus Receptus. (His 7th Edition still demonstrates this very much). But by the time that he produced the 8th edition, he had switched to relying on the corrupt greek manuscript he had found in the Monastery at Mt Sinai.

Tischendorf claimed that his discovered text (the Codex Sinaiticus) was an "authentic" copy of the original New Testament. (It is actually dated to no earlier than the 4th century).

So we can see that this is the manuscript (along with Westcott & Hort) that the NIV claims to rely on for its own "accuracy". But the Codex Sinaiticus is among the most corrupt versions of the Greek Text. Its most probable source in fact are the 50 copies of the Corrupted Text of the N.T. that Eusebius produced for the Emperor Constantine (worshipper of Mithras/Sol Invictus).

 
 

NIV Translators - Part 3 -

Tischendorf, Westcott & Hort

 

 

So the NIV uses the Codex Sinaiticus, So What ?

Well, the Greek Manuscripts around the world have a number of tests performed on them, in order to determine where they come from, how old they are, what their source was, etc. 

 

The closest manuscript relative of Codex Sinaticus (from Tischendorf) is Codex Vaticanus. Both of these manuscripts support the doctrinal positions of the Catholic Church. And both of them have several books in them [as part of the bible] that are NOT part of the traditional Received Text, either in Greek nor English.

Both of them are dated to the 4th Century. Both of these are used as valid affirmations of many changes made to the Traditional Text of the NT in Greek.

The main problem is that: Both of these Greek Texts contradict almost all of the other manuscripts used by the Church, for 2000 years. That's right ! Codex Vaticanus and Codex Sinaiticus (of Tischendorf) are part of the 5 % of the Greek Texts that vary and/or contradict ALL THE REST of the other GREEK MANUSCRIPTS.

What is more significant, is that far from agreeing with each other, Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus contradict each other - in more than 4000 places (yes - Four Thousand !!!).

There are - in fact - more verses where these two manuscripts differ from each other, than where they agree with each other.

Also the Translators during the Reformation (Beza/diodatti/Stephens) were aware of Codex Vaticanus. They rejected its use because it contradicted the other Greek Texts and because they knew it was a corrupt version.

 

Back to the NIV Translators

 

SO the NIV/TNIV TRANSLATORS, fully knowing these facts, STILL decided to use the UBS/Nestle-Aland Greek text, which Depends on Westcott & Hort and TISCHENDORF's Codex Sinaiticus.

For us, these issues are too significant to place our faith in the work done by the NIV Translators. There are too many questions that were not addressed. We still cannot understand WHY they decided to use the corrupt texts of
Codex Sinaiticus, and the corrupted work of Westcott & Hort.

Our Sources: Although we use many different sources, here are two of them:
 

1. The Revision Revised, written by Oxford Professor John William Burgon (also known as Dean Burgon) (@1883/since republished & which we sell).
2.The Recent International Bestseller The Jesus Papyrus' by Carsten Thiede (german Papyrologist) and Matthew d'Ancona.

Next Part - Entire Verses Deleted in the NIV ? 

True or False ?

 

 

 

For those who object to this article

I understand that If I object to this article, that I need to take certain steps:

1. I need to clearly understand for myself what is the specific basis of my objection

2. I need to remember that other people cannot read my mind and may not understand what I have a problem with, and I will need to be patient in explaining my objection. 

3. I need to examine my own motives and decide what is pushing me or motivating me to respond about this article. If there is an issue of lack of accuracy, then I do need to bring this up.

But if the issue is that the article is accurate, then I need to understand how I should be responding to the parts that I already know and understand are true. 

4. I need to be wise, so that I do not use my own lack of knowledge, as the basis for objecting too fast. There are many questions and much documentation that can be provided to those who may object. If I have a problem I can ask for this documentation, but I need to be sure and ask myself just what I am placing my SECURITY in, as a fellow Christian.  

5. does the article upset me because it may be TRUE, and I am disturbed because I am finding that I have put my security in a Version of the Bible that either is NOT accurate or that was NOT accurately translated ?

6. does this mean that I may be in spiritual danger, and that I need to do much more research personally, for myself, and stop taking the word of some Pastors or leaders who are simply telling me NOT to worry about these issues, but to be warm and filled and go back to sleep ?

7. Do I need to undertand that even though some of these Pastors who "bless" all versions may have good intentions, that they may not have the gift of Biblical Discernment, and therefore they may not understand either their own need to do a great deal of personal research on this matter, so that they do not endanger the Congregation and individual Church members that they have been entrusted with ?

8. Is the church that I am going to either part of a denomination that now is Liberal or has turned its back on God or historic Christianity, or part of a group that is endorsing Unbliblical or Anti-Historic Practices such as Word of Faith or selling the Gospel by Trends such as using Church Consultants that are far more committed to Church NUMBER growth, and NOT the individual Spiritual Maturity of the Christians that are ALREADY there ?

 

 

____________________________________ 

 

The Real Question is what are you going to do with the information that was presented in this article.

 

Is the Information True ?

Is the Information Accurate ?

Is the Information documented ?

Do I - before God - have a responsibility if I am a Christian to accept and act on the information in this article ?

Am I comfortable in the knowledge, that some leaders under the guise of clarifying the text of the Bible, are actually changing that text, and changing MY understanding of what God wants to share with me through His Holy Word, the Old Testament and the New Testament ?

Do I understand that these "small" changes number from the hundreds to the THOUSANDS depending on which Modern Versions I use, and that these changes serve to cut away the clarity and the specific understanding found in the Greek New Testament, that these new modern versions are preventing me from understanding ?

Do I understand that most of these new Modern Versions were not developed because there was a genuine need, but because the teams of Bible Translators were Hired by PUBLISHING companies who are eager to make a profit on the Word of God, which remains the Number ONE bestseller every week of every year, and that these Publishers decided to cash in ?

Do I understand that the problem was that if these Bible Adjusters and Correctors did NOT make the changes that they chose to, that they would not be able to claim copyright protection, and therefore they would not be able to make a financial Profit from their new versions ?

Do I understand that there are Spiritual Forces that want to prevent me from having GREATER spiritual understanding about God, but that God himself is always in MORE of a hurry than I am, for Me to get to know HIM ?

Do I realize what my personal state of preparation will be, within me, when Islam becomes the Dominant Religion in the United States, as it is already in Europe, and how I will personally be required to defend my Faith, by argument and persuasion, using knowledge of the Bible and of History and of Christianity, and that God will rightly hold me accountable because I am claiming to be His Child and a personal follower of Jesus Christ ?

In view of these facts, should I try to set aside more time for the study of the Word of God, and more time for the study of History and the true history of the Christian Church, and to learn about how other Christians in the past, actually learned to have and to gain GREAT spiritual strength ?

If no one reaches out to help prepare me for the coming challenges, whose job is it STILL for me to be prepared to answer these challenges and questions ?

 

FREE Ebooks for your encouragement, consideration and learning (PDF) Page can be found here: http://www.exorthodoxforchrist.com/free_ebooks_instant_downloads_pdf.htm 

 

I Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
 

II Timothy 2: 15 Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
 

 

 

 

FREE GENEVA BIBLE  NEW TESTAMENT (1560) IN PDF

 

 

 

 

 Buy a Book !

Purchase one of the books we offer and support this ministry !

 

 

 



TNIV ] TNIV 2 ] SBC & TNIV ] [ NIV - Intro ] NIV & Salvation ] VERSIONS: R.V. & R.S.V. ] ESV ] Numbers in Versions - 50,070 or only 70 ] The ever changing literal NASB ] Misquoting Jesus, A Critique of -  the Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why ] NIV-Verses Missing ] NIV Quiz ] NLT-New Living Translation ] NASB ]