SECRET RAPTURE

 

 

 

We are going to list a number of things, mainly just to bring them up in order to get them out of the way. By the way, we do not believe in any "secret" Rapture.

 

We do not advocate any secret rapture.

 

We do not personally know any serious theologians or authors who advocate any secret rapture.

 

In addition, we do not know of any Major Ministry that advocates the Rapture, but then somehow suggests that it is secret. (Do you know of any ?) .

 

 

The idea of a Rapture being secret does NOT historically belong to the doctrine of the Rapture. 

 

The No-Rapture view is usually advocated by friends of certain MODERN authors, who have an agenda of setting up their own kingdom on Earth, and hope to deceive millions of people into cooperating with them, so they can be in charge.  

 

 

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By the way, we do not really attach much significance to the term Rapture. The term Rapture specifically comes from the Latin translation [rapturos] , even though the New Testament was written in ANcient Greek.

 

So a person can call the phenomena "the Rapture" or the "significant moment", of the moment of the "snatching away" or the moment of being "Caught up" in the air.

 

We are fairly comfortable in Ancient Greek, and the term for what is being described in I Thessalonians 4 is - literally -  "caught up"

 

We offer the Ancient Greek Text of the New Testament on our website for Free, for those who want it. They can read the Ancient Koine Greek for themselves.

 

 

http://www.exorthodoxforchrist.com/free_ebooks_instant_downloads_pdf.htm

 

 

People not familiar with other languages sometimes think that all languages must have a 100% perfect match for each and every word in a different language. That would be nice but it is not always possible. We don't get hung up much on what the event of being "Snatched Away" is called.

 

 

Whatever it is called, the Rapture, or the great Snatching-Away it seems to suggest that people are at one location on Earth at one moment, and in the next moment, they are NOT on EArth, but rather WIth Jesus Christ, and Literally in Mid-Air.

 

We do not know how it is possible to be "IN THE AIR" and be on the Earth at the same moment, therefore when Paul was speaking to the thessalonians, he was offering them comfort first concerning being in the air with Christ, and then ALSO being in comfort concerning the Day of the Lord. It was comforting for them to realize that those who were deceased would ALSO be taken care of, by the Lord, and that the Lord had NOT forgotten them.

 

In order to understand that passage better, it is necessary to understand how the Dead were impacted in the Gospels when the graves were opened then, and the dead came back to life. That is in the Gospels and this passage in I Thess reminds the audience of what happened around the time that Jesus departed in the clouds when He told them that he would come back in the same manner (meaning in the clouds/in the air...NOT back to Earth...or so it would seem).

 

 

 

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Two things are usually very obvious about HOW the Rapture divides religious leaders: The Christians who DO advocate the Rapture are NOT seeking to increase their own wealth, their own power HERE on EARTH.

 

The Leaders who DENY the Rapture usually DO have an agenda of teaching that the Rapture is not going to happen, so everyone should help THOSE LEADERS have more money, more influence and more power so that everyone ELSE can build the Kingdoms of those leaders.

 

http://www.exorthodoxforchrist.com/word_faith_movement.htm

 

To us then, it seems hard to find a distinction between

 

A) the LEADERS who do not WANT the Rapture to be true, and

 

B) then the Second part of their Agenda of how they propose to put to work, the people who are then Not Raptured.

 

 

 

The Rapture is not particularly popular in anycase. Anyone seeking fame or popularity should NOT advocate it. But truth is also not usually popular....

 

Many - yes, MANY of the modern Christian Leaders are advocating ALL SORTS of doctrines that are unscriptural and NOT found either in Christian Doctrine or in the Bible or in the Historical Records of the Church.

 

http://www.exorthodoxforchrist.com/fuller_no_witness.htm

 

We will adress this further below, you will have the chance to see that we are among the most historically minded ministries on the net. We DO check the records of history to make sure that we DO know what they are say and that we are not misled.

 

Many Modern TV Ministries however, make it a habit to NOT get into the records of history, because if they ever did, it would become very obvious to their listeners that what they advocate today is certainly NOT historic Biblical Christianity.

 

 

 

 

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On to the other issues:

 

1. In the Bible, there are what is called Major Doctrines, and there are Secondary Issues.

 

The Major Doctrines are the doctrines that are clear, and that are the cornerstone of what Christianity is.

 

Secondary Issues are issues found within the New Testament (or Old Testament) but on which there is not unanimity, not total clarity on the meaning of a particular verse or passage.

 

An example of a Major Doctrine is the Deity of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is Divine. That is a Major Doctrine. Without it, Christianity would not be what it is today (or historically).

 

An example of a Secondary Issue is whether Christians should drink wine. Some Christians believe that drinking any wine is a sin. Other Christians believe that only getting drunk is a sin. Still others believe that drinking wine is not specifically a sin, but they Still decide that it is not WISE to make a habit of drinking, whether anyone is drunk or not.  The point is that the Bible offers guidance on issues, but not always on every ASPECT of every issue.

 

 

Christians can still be Christians and STILL disagree on Secondary Issues.

 

The Rapture is ONE of maybe 200 issues that would be considered a Secondary Issue.

 

Whether someone believes in the Rapture is NOT related to whether a person is saved (has Eternal Life) or not.

 

Whether someone believes in the Rapture is NOT related to whether God will continue to love them or not.

 

 

The Rapture is the understanding that God will take people at a certain point to be with Him.

 

The Rapture is NOT the understanding of anything "secret".

 

 

To refer to the Rapture as a "Secret Rapture" is like referring to World War One as a "Secret War".

 

The Rapture has not been a Secret.

 

To our knowledge, the Rapture has never been taught as something which ever was a "secret".

 

We know who the major people are who have advocated the Rapture.

 

They were people like Scofield and R.A. Torrey (just to name 2). Both of them wrote books about it, to INFORM people that the Rapture WOULD take place.

 

How is it then possible to refer to the Rapture as a "secret" ??

 

It is not possible to do this, not if people are intellectually honest.

 

Being intellectually honest means that even when we disagree with the point of view that someone ELSE has, we do NOT misrepresent their point of view.

 

But in the case of those who disagree with the rapture, there is a good deal of dishonesty.

 

For example, some websites have suggested that Scofield worked with Westcott and Hort.

 

 

http://www.exorthodoxforchrist.com/scofield.htm

 

That statement about Scofield working WITH Westcott and Hort is a terribly ignorant statement [since they were on opposite sides as we clarifiy in the article posted], but ...it to allege that [by those who do] is an act of intellectual dishonesty, because it is not representing the points of view, and those who held to those points of view, honestly.

 

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The question is WHO BENEFITS by describing the Rapture as a "Secret" doctrine.

 

If the Rapture is admitted to be a MAINSTREAM view of the Historic Church, by Mainstream Theologians, then it would become obvious that to disagree with this view...would be to disagree with MAINSTREAM CHURCH Doctrines.

 

BUT, if someone alleges that the Rapture Doctrine is a "Secret", this immediately re-casts the Rapture as something which is only believed by a minority of people.

Therefore those who believe in going against the Rapture, are believing often that they are going against what they have been told is a MINORITY view.

 

There is a test for this issue: the test would be to do a survey, an inventory of the majority of the Major Leaders and Theologians of the Church. IF the Church Leaders and Theologians name the Rapture or explain that concept, and advocate it and promote it, and if there is a substantial amount of those leaders who do this, then it would be Dishonest to characterize the Rapture as a 

1. Secret doctrine which was only advocated by those 

2. Outside of the mainstream of the Church.

 

Where is the proof that any of these leaders have referred to the rapture as a secret ?

 

That is kind of like referring to the Iraq War as a secret. Those who don't want to find out about it will not ask questions, they will not follow that section of the news , and they will not pay attention.

 

But those who want to find out about the IRaq war CAN find out as much as they want, IF they are willing to make an effort.

 

The same thing is true about the Rapture. Those who want to study it can. Those who don't want to still have that choice. But it would be innacurate to say that if people do not chose to study the rapture, that this is somehow the same thing as a "secret rapture". (which you have not specifically said, we understand).

 

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Question:

 

In chapter 5:1-11 Paul tells the Thessalonians that only GOD knows THE DAY AND HOUR that Jesus Christ is coming back. Is that passage speaking of HIS COMING being a secret "RAPTURE"? 

 

 

Answer:

No, the idea of only God knowing the day or the time is an issue of the sovereignty of God. As Christians, it is important for us to keep uppermost in our minds that we on the one hand instructed to look for His return, but on the other hand to remember that despite the circumstances of the world, God is STILL sovereign (in charge), and God is still in control.

 

The secret in the case of not knowing the exact time is an issue of the wisdom of timing that GOD chooses.

 

There is no such thing as a secret rapture, except as a non-existent concept that those who are opposed to the Rapture, attempt to allege in order to pretend that the Rapture is not a historically a Mainstream understanding of the Bible. 

 

 

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Implications of No Rapture.

 

 

Lets think about the implications of No Rapture. 

Do the leaders who suggest that there is no rapture then go on to discuss how to prepare for the worse times to come ?

 

We continually suggest to people that they should be prepared and doing all that can be done. We understand that there will be a great invasion of people prepared to convert all nations to Islam. Do those leaders prepare people for how to respond to this, for when that rapture does NOT happen ?

 

If you do enough seeking, you will find that the opposite doctrine of the Rapture, is called Replacement Theology. It is the idea that the Church has replaced Israel in the mind of God.

 

REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY: 

A. When Evangelicals Replace Israel ? or 

B. when Vaticanized Roman Catholics instead replace Evangelicals ?

 

 

Some Evangelicals (the MINORITY who believe this) think that this Replacement Theology refers to  Evangelical Christians becoming the chosen people.

  The truth of the situation will instead be a rude shock.

 

The actual Replacement that takes place is when those who are here during the Tribulation give in to "replacement theology" and find that it is the Vatican that will be in charge of all churches and all denominations of Christianity.

  THAT is what Replacement theology actually is about. And when you dig deep enough even into supposed Evangelical ministries that advocate their Replacement theology, you will find that they are making interesting progress in moving many evangelicals into Reunification with the Vatican, not simply organizational reunification, but THEOLOGICAL reunification.

That does not mean that the Vatican stops promoting its unique or anti-historical view of salvation (salvation by Church membership / salvation by works) and becomes evangelical. 

It means that Evangelicals give up THEIR views and find that their own historic views about Christianity are replaced by Roman Catholic views on many things, including the Future and the end of days.

 

http://www.exorthodoxforchrist.com/vatican_news.htm

 

 

http://www.exorthodoxforchrist.com/pope_power_grab.htm

 

 

The No-Rapture concepts are the CORE of what the Roman Catholic Church believes.  If you are in an evangelical church that believes this, you are being prepared for a delusion. That is true because that is what Roman Catholic theologians affirm. The only ones not to know this though, are evangelicals.

 

For more information on the implications of the Roman Catholic Church and the End TImes,

interesting and historic material can be found here (Free) on our site at:

 

http://www.exorthodoxforchrist.com/two_babylons.htm

 

 

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Lets suggest that I Thess. 5 refers to the second coming. At the second coming Jesus actually comes BACK to Earth.

 

But in I Thessalonians 4:17, it is the Christians who go UP in the Air.

 

Is I Thessalonians 4:17 when the Christians go up in the Air referring to the SAME event of the Second Coming when it is Jesus Christ who comes back to Earth ?

 

If - IF -  the answer is yes, then even if that were the case, would'n the Taking Up of those Christians in the Air STILL amount to (and result in) being taken up in the Air ?

 

Isn't that the same thing as the Rapture ?

 

Isnt that identical to the Rapture ?

 

So why would that NOT be the Rapture ?

 

So, if Christians are STILL taken up, then the Rapture is still going to take place.

 

So if those who disagree with an EARLY Rapture (before the Tribulation) STILL maintain that the Rapture is going to take place, then wouldn't that mean that they are AGREEING that the RAPTURE is in fact a historical perspective, one shared by the Church, as well as by St. Paul, who wrote I Thessalonians ?

 

That STILL seems like its a Rapture ....doesn't it ?

 

 

If the Rapture happens  7 years before the Return of Christ, or at the Tribulation mid-point (which is 3 and 1/2 years before the End), or FIVE minutes before the return of Christ,

 

That would STILL be the Rapture, would it not ?

 

 

 

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We do value history...

 

We STILL advocate that people be salt and light in their own life

 

http://www.exorthodoxforchrist.com/for_newbies.htm

 

http://www.exorthodoxforchrist.com/questions_to_ask_a_pastor.htm

 

http://www.exorthodoxforchrist.com/pastor%27s_corner.htm

 

 

 

 

We STILL advocate learning more about the Bible and being well grounded in the Faith.

 

http://www.exorthodoxforchrist.com/modern_versions.htm

 

 

 

We strongly advocate Reliance on Prayer

 

http://www.exorthodoxforchrist.com/prayer.htm

 

 

 

We also have material that DOES deal with islam to help believers understand some of the difficult aspects of islam.

 

http://www.exorthodoxforchrist.com/middle_east.htm

 

http://www.exorthodoxforchrist.com/sudan_under_islamic_sharia_law.htm

 

http://www.exorthodoxforchrist.com/islam_persecutes_christians_-_again.htm

 

http://www.exorthodoxforchrist.com/are_we_making_this_up_.htm

 

 

 

 

We help people remain connected to Current Events and Engaged in the culture, and in what is happening around them:

 

http://www.exorthodoxforchrist.com/np_13.htm

 

http://www.exorthodoxforchrist.com/american_borders_to_be_dismantled.htm

 

http://www.exorthodoxforchrist.com/john_mccain_pro_abortionist.htm

 

http://www.exorthodoxforchrist.com/global_treaties.htm

 

http://www.exorthodoxforchrist.com/islamization_of_europe.htm

 

 

and We ALSO have material that at least tries to help other Christians around the world.

We come to the defense of the oppressed around the world. But the so-called ministries that advocate replacement theology and No-Rapture do VERY LITTLE to help fellow christians who are persecuted...around the world.

 

 

 

We do value both good theology and History. We also offer books on History, several Free.

 

Most people have no idea of the kind of high quality books used to be written, 150 or 200 years ago or more. Those books address in great details most of the issues of history.

 

 http://www.exorthodoxforchrist.com/free_ebooks_instant_downloads_pdf.htm

 

 

We also offer older Bibles in some cases, such as the Geneva Bible New Testament (1560) that we have made available for Free.

 

http://www.exorthodoxforchrist.com/free_ebook_pdf_download_geneva_bible_testament.htm

 

We offer a Free New Testament in Spanish also.

 

It may take a bit of time to get through that material.

 

 

 

 

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The points worth noting are TWO (among others):

 

1. Those who oppose the Rapture, many of those LEADERS often like to suggest and imply that the Rapture is NOT believed out of conviction, but mainly by people who are afraid to be engaged in the culture and in society. But that is simply NOT true. 

Those who know and believe in the Rapture are - for the most part - VERY committed to being part of society and trying to have a positive influence within society in the context of communicating the Love of Jesus and trying to help others. 

Those who believe in the Rapture ALSO understand the Sovereignty of God, that as long as God has put them here on this Earth, it is to have An Impact for HIM, and NOT to take some kind of vacation that removes them from trying to reach out to others.

 

 

It is the ones who often are in favor of the Rapture who DO understand and VALUE the people in the culture who want to WARN people of the events in the near future, in order to reach more people for Jesus Christ, because of a motive of love and compassion.

 

 

2. The Bible is a book designed to be taken Literally. Those who deny the Rapture may not admit this up front, but most of their leaders believe in taking Revelation and Daniel as a METAPHOR, or Figuratively. What they often do not publically admit, is that there are other sections of the Bible that they also take that same way, so that the actual issue is one of Bible Interpretation.  Those who tend to think that Revelation should not be taken literally often ALSO believe that other major books of the Bible are NOT to be taken or followed Literally either.

 

First it is the Rapture that should not be taken literally.

 

Then it is book of Revelation that should not be taken literally.

 

Then it is the book of Daniel that should not be taken literally.

 

Then it is the other Prophets who ALSO should not be taken literally.

 

Then it is the passages where God says to bless Israel (meaning the Hebrew People) Literally, and warns nations NOT to work against the Hebrew People that should not be taken literally.

 

Then, it is the Mark of the Beast that ALSO should not be taken literally. All that stuff doesn't really matter.  Then the passages about Apostate Christians and a GREAT falling away should not be taken literally.

 

Then it is the passages that refers to a Literal AntiChrist...that should not be taken Literally. No, they will say the anti-christ is more of a Force, or an Attitude, but not really a real person.

 

Bit by bit, piece by piece, most of the literal pieces of the Bible are taken away, until what remains is a shell of views and doubts, and opinions of men, where nothing is known, nothing can be proven, nothing is to be taken literally, and nothing is to be acted upon.

 

The Bible becomes little more than a book of nice suggestions, about which all of us can endlessly debate without taking the Bible...or God...literally.

 

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Finally, for ourselves, we do not care so much about the rapture for its own sake. If it happens it happens, if it does not, then that is life.

 

But while we are here, we will try to help others and continue to encourage others to know history and their literal Bibles better.

 

Taking the New Testament literally is about being kind and trying to help others.

 

Hope that helps clarify our position some,

 

glad for your questions or feedback,

 

we encourage discussions and conversations...